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#1186 - 03/18/04 02:59 AM Jay Mitton
OhioFreddy Offline
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Registered: 03/17/04
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Loc: Ohio
Does anyone have any information on Jay Mitton or his programs? He is touted as the father of Asset Protection. Author Robert Allen of "Nothing Down" fame says that Mitton is his personal attorney. Input/info would be appreciated.

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#1187 - 03/21/04 05:26 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Posts: 168
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Jay Mitton is not a planner, but a seller of mostly worthless seminars where you will be hyped into a frenzy to buy his grossly overpriced kits that let you set up a cookie-cutter structure that might have worked in 1997 but is pretty much worthless today.

Anybody who claims to be his client is basically making an admission that they are either a fool or a sucker.

Check out the archives for the ABA-PTL list serve, and search "Mitton" and you see many less-than-flattering descriptions of him by respected members of the American Bar Association.

Oh, and the State of Florida has entered a cease-and-desist order against him practicing there. Start your research with http://www.flcourts.org/sct/clerk/disposition/2002/1/00-2171reh.pdf
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#1188 - 11/04/04 04:46 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Ladder To Success Offline
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Registered: 11/03/04
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Loc: Provo, UT
I have used the Jay Mitton legal tool kit to set up many entities and it has work fantasticly. It has saved me thousands and dollars in attorney fees.

I have an associate in California who has purchased the kit and has had it reviewed by two attorneys, one who is his brother, who said the Jay Mitton forms were the best forms they had ever seen. My associate estimates that the kit has saved him around $10,000 in attorney fees.

There is no question that the kit works if you use it.

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#1189 - 11/04/04 09:33 PM Re: Jay Mitton
George Offline
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 6
Loc: Atlanta GA
Hey Ladder can you show me some proof in websites or cases that it has worked?

I am with Bill on this one, I smell something and it ain't no rose.......

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#1190 - 01/13/05 03:47 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Ladder To Success Offline
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Registered: 11/03/04
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Loc: Provo, UT
George,

I used the kit to set up a S-Corporation in 2002. I used the kit in 2004 to set up a C-Corporation. Both enitities are currently operating. Operating my businesses as coroporations instead of as a sole proprietor has saved me thousands in taxes. The kit obviously works.

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#1191 - 01/13/05 02:15 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Jay Adkisson Offline
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Of course, you could have had a real life CPA do it for you (and do it right) for a couple of hundred bucks.

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#1192 - 01/20/05 09:50 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Ladder To Success Offline
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Registered: 11/03/04
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Loc: Provo, UT
I called Jay Adkisson's office several months ago and talked with Jay Adkisson's dad about setting up an asset protection plan. I was told that they charged $3500 just to review your assets and make recommendations and then there are additional fees to actually set up the plan. Of course attorneys do not want you to use Jay Mitton's legal tool kit to set up the entities because it cuts them out of the picture.

With the Jay Mitton Legal Tool Kit, I can set up all the legal entities I need to protect 100% of my professional and personal assets from lawsuits. Included with the kit is unlimited phone support from advisors to answer questions.

I searched the country before I went with Jay Mitton's groups for my asset protection plan. I met with law firms and CPAs in Missouri, Salt Lake City, California, and Cincinnati in my search. The fact of the matter is that Jay Mitton's groups have more experience and expertise in the area of lawsuit protection than anyone is the country. I contacted the American Bar Association to tried and find asset protection experts and found that of the more than 1 million attorneys in the United States, approximately only 800 claim asset protection as their specialty. Asset Protection is a very specialized area of law. In my search, Jay Mitton's groups by far had more experience and expertise on Asset Protection than any one in the country. Asset Protection is all they have done for 30 years.

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#1193 - 01/21/05 06:05 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Jay Adkisson Offline
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Check out the archives of the ABA-RPPT listserv to get an idea of what the nation's top lawyers think about the quality of Mitton's planning.

Again, there is a difference between one-size-fits-all PROMOTERS who sell the same thing to everybody regardless of their individual needs, and PLANNERS who custom-designed plans from scratch for the particular needs of each client. Frankly, I don't even want to waste time with clients who want promoters, so I don't see them as competition at all.

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#1194 - 01/21/05 01:48 PM Re: Jay Mitton
OhioFreddy Offline
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Jay Adkisson should have disclosed his self serving interests when criticizing Jay Mitton. It calls into question everything he said. If he can't be honest and upfront here why would I trust his integrity as a client?

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#1195 - 01/21/05 02:13 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Jay Adkisson Offline
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Don't take my word for it. Check out some of these threads from the American Bar Association's Real Property, Probate and Trust listserv (there are quite a few other threads if you check the archives, and also for the tax section as well):

http://mail.abanet.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9706&L=aba-ptl&P=R7886&I=-3

http://mail.abanet.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9708&L=aba-ptl&P=R34884&I=-3

http://mail.abanet.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9708&L=aba-ptl&P=R35447&I=-3

http://mail.abanet.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9805&L=aba-ptl&P=R3207&I=-3

http://mail.abanet.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9805&L=aba-ptl&P=R4167&I=-3

The above posts are from some of the RECOGNIZED top planners in America, i.e., people who serve on state and national panels to guide laws, are known for writing detailed professional articles, etc. (Joe Hodges, for instance, has been an expert witness to various Congressional committees).

Oh, and to check on somebody's credibility and integrity, ask around among other professionals in that field. You'll find that you'll get a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" on some people pretty quickly.

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#1196 - 01/21/05 04:08 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Rob-Lambert Offline
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Posts: 356
OhipFreddy,

That is a cheap shot against Jay. You are welcome to post but i will not tolerate personal attacks like that. Jay is telling the truth...
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#1197 - 01/25/05 05:38 AM Re: Jay Mitton
silverbullet Offline
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Registered: 12/01/04
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Among professionals Jay Mitton does not seem to have a very good reputation at all.

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#1198 - 03/03/05 01:11 PM Re: Jay Mitton
jason Offline
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 1
ok...asset protection for liabilities of your company coming back on you...fine

what about your personal liability? what about you, your wife, your minor child driving and accidently killing someone in an accident?

what protects your personal assets? your savings? your home equity?

how the heck do you protect those?

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#1199 - 03/11/05 05:55 AM Re: Jay Mitton
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I just returned from a National Medical Foundation presentation (the Jay Mitton organization). It was give by an attorney, Robert K. Dowd, JD, LLM, from Houston, TX. The guy is an AV rated Martindale-Hubbell attorney. Doesn't that lend some credibility to the program?

Are there any legitimate programs or courses that can help you do some of the leg work in setting up an asset protection without incurring massive legal fees?

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#1200 - 03/15/05 02:01 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Who's the Crook Offline
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I'm not sure who's telling the truth. I question Jay's resources when the first one is from 1997 and can't spell correctly.

Here is one paragraph from the first person Jay listed.
------------------------
What I found at this seminar that astonished me was that the atendees
couldn't wait to buy these books you menytion. Wjen the speaker was
introducing the faxct that they would be on sale in the back of the room,
people RUSHED to be the first in line, credit card in hand. I sat there
wiyth my mouth open in amazment. It was like they were giving away money.
----------------------------
Not the source I'd put first on my list of witnesses. The others seem to have at least proofread their response before posting. As far as what date the others were posted I'm not going to waste my time going back to look at them.

I'm still debating on whether this Jay Mitton is legit. Everyone is self serving in this case until proven otherwise.

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#1201 - 03/25/05 03:28 PM Re: Jay Mitton
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I recently listened to an audio tape (Audio-Digest Emergency Medicine 21:18) in which Mr. G. Kent Mangelson, CFP, of the National Medical Foundation for Asset Protection, endorsed Mr. Mitton and his product (which now, by the way, is being offered for the sale price of $3000).

In following the discussion here it seems that Mr. Mitton has his supporters and detractors. Is there someone who can tell me just why they think his templates would be ineffectual if challenged? Also, is there some way to learn of specific instances in which his product has failed in the courts when put to the test?

The notion of a do-it-yourself asset protection program is understandably attractive but nobody wants to waste their time or money on a product which fails at the critical point when it is most needed.

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#1202 - 03/26/05 04:58 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Jay Adkisson Offline
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Of course I'm biased, but why would you think that a CFP would know the first thing about asset protecton planning? It is not a course taught to CFPs or even mentioned in their educational materials, and is not a part of their accreditation. It's like asking a chiropractor what he thinks of a heart bypass procedure.

The problem with all kits or "canned" structures is that they do not fit the particular needs of the purchasers and require the purchasers to engage in do-it-yourself funding of the entities, choosing who will be key people such as managers, and then it ignores very basic issues such as whether the entity will be adequately capitalized, whether the corporate separateness of the entity will be respected, etc. That is on top of the fact that all states have sometimes significant variations in the adoptions of the RULPA and ULLCA that must be taken into account in drafting.

On top of all that, kits can't even begin to address the myriad tax issues involved and people who use kits like this often end up making transfers that result in unnecessary and sometimes severe tax consequences.

For all you danger seekers who would be comfortable in building your own kit airplane and then in flying it over the Atlantic on its first flight, these kits are for you.

For everybody else, go see a planner and have it done right. If you don't have enough assets so that you can't see the benefit in paying a planner to do it right, then you probably would be MUCH further ahead to spend your $3,000 on umbrella insurance, since from what I've seen, most of the people who buy the kits play around with it but in the end rarely end up actually using it.

Oh, and for those who think that I hate guys who sell kits, you're wrong. The people who would buy kits are too cheap to do things right and will end up cutting corners and getting everybody into trouble. For businessmen smart enough to ask their own attorney what they think, the kit sellers raise their awareness of their need for asset protection and then (fortunately) they consult with their own attorneys who finally point them in the right direction. So, power to them.

Asset protection is like any other planning area in that you ought to seek second opinions from competent professionals. But you will never find professionals outside their selling group who will give their kits the thumbs-up, even if the attorney who reviews the work doesn't do asset protection himself. And that says a lot.

See also the commentary from the ABA's RPPT listserv that I gave above, which is from some of the very best planners in the U.S. of A. And if you still are wondering, go ask your ordinary attorney to investigate for you and tell you whether these kits are a good idea or not.

I do get a kick out of the names that these guys come up with. "National Medical Foundation for Asset Protection" -- I wonder who dreams this shit up?

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#1203 - 03/28/05 10:51 PM Re: Jay Mitton
CA ER DOC Offline
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Loc: California
When the garbage disposal in my kitchen sink gave up the ghost I removed it myself and installed the new one myself, not because I was too cheap to call a plumber, but because I thought I could solve the problem myself.

Some legal forms are not difficult to complete, but all forms must be completed and filed correctly. It seems to me that the need for professional consultation is principally to determinme whether the completion and filing of such forms will achieve the goal sought and whehter or not the process is beyond the ability of a lay person. How many people try curing themselves at home before seeing a doctor? Not every problem requires the services of a professional.

It can never be to a professional's credit to have his/her practice restricted in any way. It is no positive endorsement for Mr. Mitton to have had a cease and desist order filed against him in Florida. However, my question remains. Does anyone know of his product not providing the asset protection it claims to be able to provide?

Let me also ask this: Has anyone used any of the forms and products of the Nolo Press as part of their asset protection plan?

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#1204 - 03/29/05 09:12 PM Re: Jay Mitton
sammy10 Offline
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Registered: 07/14/02
Posts: 100
If there were more lawyers with the brains and balls to do asset protection, we would not have this problem. Why can't some of the money hungry aggressive plaintiff lawyer types learn enough about taxation, estate planning, and bankruptcy litigation to do asset protection?
Must not be enough money in it.

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#1205 - 03/30/05 11:34 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Kenetra Offline
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Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 7
Oh it's enough money sammy but law school does not provide an asset protection 101 class so therefore you've got some attorneys charging ridiculous fees to people claiming such and such will protect their assets when they are only experimenting with their client and praying for the best. But it's definitely enough money.

I also agree with the CA ER DOC it's up to US to take care of our finances and best interest not anyone else.
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#1206 - 04/01/05 03:13 AM Re: Jay Mitton
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Loc: California
The silence is deafening. Everybody out enjoying the Spring weather?
I went by the Nolo Press today and picked up a couple of their books on LLC's. One came with software and what is described as the forms necessary to create an LLC.
Whether or not Mr. Mitton is a huckster, he too sells software claiming to have the forms necessary to create a LLC.
So, let's say we have an individual who wants to take his personal assets (home,stocks,cash,mutual funds, etc) and put them all in an LLC to keep potential creditors/litigants from getting at them. Seems simple enough. Seems like something the asset protection folks tend to recommend. Why would the use of some type of formatted LLC structure not be effectual?
And Bill Smith, the Florida courts have changed their web site structure. I copied and pasted the address you provided into my browser but was not connected with the cease and desist order. Any other suggestions as to how I might get to this?
Jay Adkisson - I've ordered a copy of your book and look forward to reading it. I've read Mitton's book and will be interested in the comparison.

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#1207 - 04/01/05 11:51 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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There are two documents on Mitton in the free files section of http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/assetprotectionscams/ and one is the Order from the Florida Supreme Court permanently barring him from marketing in that state.
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#1208 - 04/02/05 12:26 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Rob-Lambert Offline
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Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 356
thanks all...
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#1209 - 04/06/05 08:59 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Cameron Taylor Offline
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In response to Jay Adkisson’s question “National Medical Foundation for Asset Protection -- I wonder who dreams this sh*t up?”

I am the president of The National Medical Foundation for Asset Protection (www.NMFAP.org). The Foundation was created by a team of committed and dedicated people. Our mission is to enable doctors to practice medicine and serve patients instead of worrying about lawsuits.

Recently, a story of a doctor who took his life as a result of a lawsuit was brought to my attention. I knew his story needed to be told and our Foundation recently released an article in regards to this story. This article will give you an idea of what our Foundation is about. You can read the article “Doctor Takes Own Life to Incite Change in Legal System” at http://nmfap.org/article.pdf

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#1210 - 04/06/05 09:02 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Cameron Taylor Offline
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Several people asked about Jay Mitton and the Florida Bar Association matter. Here is a link to a PDF of a letter by Jay Mitton regarding this matter: http://nmfap.org/JayLetter.pdf

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#1211 - 04/06/05 09:04 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Cameron Taylor Offline
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Jay Adkisson stated, “. . . you will never find professionals outside their selling group who will give their kits the thumbs-up.”

This statement is untrue. Here is a portion of a letter I received from one of our clients, “Being skeptical, I hired two attorneys to review the materials [Jay Mitton’s Asset Protection Tool Kit] and suggest whether I should adopt the strategies promulgated. Both attorneys offered to set up business entities for me according to the strategies and suggestions in these materials so that I could protect myself. One of the attorneys told me he was going to buy his own set of the materials.

“Since successfully defending against four lawsuits, one without an attorney, and becoming certified as a paralegal, I have branched out from chiropractic and acupuncture practice to consult for attorneys, doctors, and other business owners involved in lawsuits and licensing matters. I usually suggest they consider the materials presented by this Foundation. After giving my first set to my family in Massachusetts, I bought an entire second set this past January. By familiarizing myself with Mr. Mitton’s work and having his materials ready, I believe I have saved the purchase price twice in reduced attorney fees developing my business and financial plans and creating my “financial fortress” against harassment by people thinking a lawsuit is their winning lottery ticket.”

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#1212 - 04/07/05 04:12 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Posts: 168
Loc: Uzbekistan
Who are the two attorneys?

Scam artists are notorious for making up anecdotal information on the internet to lure in suckers.

"I just heard from my Aunt Emily and she had her [insert scam here] reviewed by [attorney/CPA/whoever] and they said it was the best thing since sliced bread!"
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#1213 - 04/30/05 10:45 PM Re: Jay Mitton
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Loc: California Born and Raised
Well I took the plunge based on the fact that they said I could return it if it wasnt going to work. I have now set up an LLC and and an FLP. I found 3 atty's willing to do the work for me. The low, $500, the high $2200. (each entity) I plan on doing my Living Trust and a Living Will. No more atty fees. Yes, it has proven to be a good purchases so far.

Oh, Jay Adkisson I have one question. Why do you slam them about their price when yours is higher? You use the same documents for other clients so all you have to do is add some info and then charge a mint. I called you guys after the fact and about had a heart attack on what you want to charge. Maybe they are not for everyone but Mitton was right for me.

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#1214 - 05/01/05 11:31 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Jay Adkisson Offline
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> You use the same documents for other
> clients so all you have to do is add
> some info and then charge a mint.

That is your misperception. First, legal documents are not static, but must be constantly evolved to keep up with changes in the law. Another attorney in my firm and I recently spent several days working on a couple of paragraphs in our LLC and LP agreements to address the issues raised in the In re Ehmann case, and correct the executory/non-executory gap.

Now, after the new bankruptcy act passed, we'll be spending a good deal of time reviewing client plans and making sure that these plans would give our clients a good chance of success were they maneuvered or forced into bankruptcy.

Also, our planning is very client-specific. If you think that the operating agreements are the same for an entity with $100,000 in cash versus an entity that works as a fractional share company for a Gulfstream G200, then you have serious misperceptions about how this area of planning is conducted. Drafting the right language to keep the people at the Federal Aviation Administration happy can take a couple of days, with back-and-forth phone calls with FAA officials prior to attempting to change the plane's title into the entity. I won't even start to go into the tax complexity of such documents.

You also cannot treat asset protection as some game where you have little identical pieces that can be fitted together like so many Leggo blocks. It just doesn't work that way. The real art of asset protection planning is wiring complex structures together in a way that fits each clients. You just don't get any of that with kits.

By contrast, I haven't seen any evidence that the documents that are sold with the kits have had any kind of significant modification since around the mid-1990s. Then, the kits of course make no attempt to be customized for each client or for particular circumstances. There is painfully litte evidence that the sellers or forms or kits make ANY attempt to keep them current with changes in the law. You never see these guys at the top continuing education conferences. In fact, I'm in Washington D.C. after having spent two days at the ABA meeting where several programs discussed asset protection issues at great length, and especially how the new bankruptcy act will impact certain strategies. Where were the promoters of the forms and kits? Apparently, they are able to gain all new knowledge by telepathy, and have no need to share ideas or get the viewpoints from other top professionals. One of the things I like about Rob is that he isn't afraid to call up and say, "How are you handling this?" and his documents are always drafted to a pretty high standard.

As I have said on many occasions, I don't see these groups as anything like competitors for the reason that we are in totally different markets. The clients who come to me want custom work and wouldn't dream of trying to modify a kit, and those who would even consider the kits by and large rarely have assets in excess of a couple of million such that the fees of any quality planner would be economical for them. What happens with the Joe 6-pack clients is usually that when something happens they can't afford to hire attorneys to defend their plans anyway, and so they end up just throwing the whole mess into bankruptcy court where the bankruptcy trustee just considers it all part of the estate and dices it up for creditors as if it weren't there.

The client trying to protect $100,000 will think that $30,000 for a good asset protection plan is outrageous, and will likewise later think that spending $100,000 to pay an attorney to defend it is totally ridiculous, even if that is what it takes (finding attorneys who have the ability to correctly litigate tough debtor issues isn't easy, or cheap). So, they won't do their plan right in the first place and they won't bother to defend it later. By contrast, the client with $5 million will consider a $30,000 fee to be a reasonable cost of doing business, and later will see the utility of spending $100,000 in litigation to protect the $5 million. The Joe 6-pack crowd will just never see this, and usually just throw up their hands and file bankruptcy, which probably will not be a desirable option in the future.

My concern is that the people who are buying the kits will be sadly disappointed later when something bad does happen, and if they can't afford proper planning then they would probably be much better off with umbrella liability insurance than trying to themselves cobble something together in an area in which even experienced estate planners sometimes have trouble grappling with the issues.

Of course, any asset protection plan works great if it is not challenged, and a very low percentage of these plans will be challenged. But with creditors now spending a lot of time trying to learn and defuse these plans (I'm going to a two-and-a-half-day seminar on Advanced Collections in San Antonio later this month, sponsored by the State Bar of Texas that will concentrate on breaking asset protection plans from the creditors' viewpoint -- I don't expect to see any of the kit promoters there, BTW), I wouldn't be too comfortable these days with a cookie-cutter structure were it to be attacked -- especially one that hasn't been significantly modified or updated in over a decade.

Rob, what are your thoughts?

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#1215 - 05/01/05 03:07 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Rob-Lambert Offline
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Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 356
Jay, thanks for the thoughtful reply.

When reading your response I was saying bravo.

Guys, there is no one size fits all plan for everybody. Planners like Jay are fortunate enought to have clients who need and expect the best (and are willing to pay for it). There are honestly less than a score of asset protection experts in the USA who operate at that level.

Certain steps of some common asset protection plans are commoditized at the lower levels (like forming an LLC.. which can be a good idea and doesn't always have to be complex). If you make 60K per year and are starting a donut shop you do need an intelligent strucutre... and you can't pay 20+K to get it. In those cases, a "kit" approach to forming an LLC or FLP in an initial stepe towards eventual solid asset protection is often better than nothing (note, many people will elect to do nothing and go completely unprotected rather than spend anything with a professional to protect themselves... a big mistake). Who knows, the donut store might end up as the next krispy creme.

My bottom line, go to a pro. Certainly avoid the many scams (e.g. nevada corps, offshore IBC's, debit cards connected to offshore bank accounts etc.)... and note, if you read my traps and scams page, one paragraph which hasn't changed for 12 years is "avoid the booksellers" .... one thing for sure, they are hardly ever set up to offer real customer support or get you through a problem.
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#1216 - 05/02/05 02:15 PM Re: Jay Mitton
MyOwnBusiness Offline
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Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 8
Loc: California Born and Raised
So gentlemen, first of all you admit then that Mitton's material is not a scam, just maybe not right for everyone, correct? I guess I would like to know if you both (seeing you asked another response from another atty) see the need to go at Mitton so hard. It looks like from my point of veiw that you are both just bitter at what he does. Yes, the seminar had a lot of people purchasing the kit. No, I am not worth enough to have an airplane of anykind. However, I do have the need to get my corp and my belongings protected.

It is too bad that atty's feel the need to do what the two or however more of you in here are atty's to slam someone that is helping people. Why would you not just point out the things that you can do.

So how exactly is Mitton scamming people?

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#1217 - 05/02/05 02:16 PM Re: Jay Mitton
MyOwnBusiness Offline
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Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 8
Loc: California Born and Raised
Oh, and thank you both for your attention to my concerns!

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#1218 - 05/02/05 05:36 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Rob-Lambert Offline
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Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 356
Good Heavens ... nobody said Jay Mitton was scamming anybody... we just said that kits don't do the trick... generic planning is only good for some people... those whose life fits the generic paradigm for which the kit was designed....

Rob Lambert
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#1219 - 05/02/05 10:04 PM Re: Jay Mitton
MyOwnBusiness Offline
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Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 8
Loc: California Born and Raised
Gentlmen, (and any other atty's on this message site) Are you really trying to say that you do not impy or hope that someone connects the dots on Mitton being a scam. Please, I am not an atty nor do I have the level of formal education that you have. I am also not an idiot. You may not legal say that but you make the implications on a daily level of communication. Like I said, maybe not a legal one but you do otherwise.

I was given your sight as people that say Mitton is a scam. You say nothing but negative about it.

My company will make over 2 million this year. Nothing to jump up and down about. I also have a story that will raise the hair on the back of you neck about what atty's will and won't do.

I am just trying to find a respectable approach to my asset protection. I know you will not say that is being stupid or a fool.

Oh, how many of your clients or people reading this, are just trying to protect themselves from average lawsuits?

I still do not know if my choice was right but I have at least gotten enough from their 'kit' to pay off the amount of money spent.

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#1220 - 05/03/05 05:02 AM Re: Jay Mitton
skip Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 1
I just got back from attending a real estate expo in los angeles which included Donald Trump, Robert Kiyosaki, Tony Robbins and Jay Mitton.

There were 46,000 attendees at the show. I went there to learn more about asset protection as I am starting to aquire more and more real estate such as rental properties.

I enjoyed what Jay and his speaker had to say about asset protection and after they completed their lecture, between 500-1000 people purchased his "kit". I was skepitical at first, so I called a relative of mine in the same situation as myself and he said he needed this info as well and told me to go ahead and buy it and we will split the cost.

There was a mad frenzy of rush to the tables selling the kits, they were sold out in minutes and the rest are to be shipped via fed ex.

so as I wait for my kit to arrive in the mail I decided to do some research on Mr. Mitton and ran across this message board.

I am a small time real estate investor who has seen a few people get sued for no valid reason what so ever and I dont want to loose what I worked so hard for. I dont care about tax benifits of FLP's, I just want to set one up correctly to protect my assets.

So after what I read on this message board I dont know if I should call them up and cancel my order or not.

I want to do it the right way, but dont have an extra $25,000 at this time to do it.

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#1221 - 05/06/05 12:19 PM Re: Jay Mitton
MyOwnBusiness Offline
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Posts: 8
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Mr Adkisson, may I ask why you slam a person, Jay Mitton, however when I do a google on his name, I find your sight?

Are you not living off the very persont that you so methodically tell everyone he is a scam. (I am sure that you know the legal limits of what you can say and how to say it so you are not slandering him) However, from a person looking at it with business sense, you slam him at every corner.

So once again, why do you live on his name? (google)

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#1222 - 05/07/05 08:22 AM Re: Jay Mitton
pfshield Offline
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Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 188
Loc: SLC, Utah
I have a friend who was the #1 sales rep for the company that marketed Jay Mitton's products post-seminar (via a call center.) He also supplied me with Jay Mitton's videotapes and legal forms. Since I have some expertise in the area of asset protection, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents worth.

Jay Mitton's program is slightly dated and not too sophisticated, nonetheless it is fundamentally sound. FLPs (basically just LPs) can provide excellent asset protection if structured properly. In particular, I feel Mr. Mitton's partnership/operating agreements and other legal documents are well drafted, although they often need modification to suit a certain client's needs.

My friend said a lot of people got burned with Mr. Mitton's programs. A fair amount of people were dissatisfied and wanted their money back. This isn't because the information wasn't good; it was because they couldn't figure out how to implement their program right. Then they'd take Mr. Mitton's materials to their attorney, and the attorney was often just as confused. Why? Well, asset protection is too complex for many untrained persons to figure out with a do-it-yourself kit. Furthermore, very few attorneys have any idea how to properly do asset protection. (This is based on both my friend's experience and my personal experience after working with many attorneys.) I personally feel Mitton's program is way too expensive - it's priced about 4-5 times what they're worth.

I think Mitton's program is a decent although grossly overpriced beginner to intermediate training program for an attorney or other person who wishes to learn how to do asset protection. In other words, it is for someone who wants to spend many hours of serious study, not for someone who just wants to buy the kit and set up their asset protection plan in a few hours. After one gets Mitton's program, they should be aware that his materials need to be modified according to the requirements of local law. Consult with a tax advisor so that you know what's happening from a tax standpoint, and be prepared to spend many hours studying the UFTA, your state's Fraudulent Transfer Act, your state's LLC act, and Limited Partnership Act before you REALLY know how to put together a decent plan. Even then, an LP or LLC shouldn't directly hold certain assets (such as your home.)

Regards,

W. Ryan Fowler

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#1223 - 05/09/05 02:19 PM Re: Jay Mitton
MyOwnBusiness Offline
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Mr. Fowler, Once again it sounds like another atty has entered the sight. I would like to get the name of your friend and see if he could help me with my kit.

I guess I am a little upset that I paid for something they gave you.

Waiting for a response...

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#1224 - 05/09/05 05:22 PM Re: Jay Mitton
MyOwnBusiness Offline
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Posts: 8
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Mr Lambert, you were asked to respond from Jay Adkisson. I did some research and found I believe is your websight, TrustMakers. Is this your websight?

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#1225 - 05/24/05 01:01 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 168
Loc: Uzbekistan
Or even "webSITE"

Sheesh
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#1226 - 05/26/05 09:19 PM Re: Jay Mitton
MyOwnBusiness Offline
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Excuse me for not spending the time to proof read my posts. I am a busy person and all I have seen here is petty games.

Website, thanks for the corrections...

Sheesh

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#1227 - 06/05/05 05:23 PM Re: Jay Mitton
averagejoe Offline
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Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 1
Loc: Seattle, Washington
After reading all the posts on this controversial subject, it taunted me to register on this site and throw my small two cents in. It seems that professionalism is a key here...you can learn alot about someone by their posts and their professional or lack of professional replies. It seems that "Jay Atkinnson" (spelling?) seems to be a little less professional than I would like to trust my asset protection with. Even the comment of "who dreams this sh*t up" shows a lack of business professionalism that this topic deserves. As far as Jay Mitton is concerned, I have used his forms even in the last few months, have saved several thousand dollars in fees for doing the same thing through a lawyer, and have recently saved my can from a lawsuit that ceased when a renter found out about my FLP holding my property instead of my name alone. The bottom line is, this stuff works, will still come with its faults, but will only be as good as the person using it. And I decided when I spent the money on the kit that I was good enough to go after it whole-heartedly and it has paid off. It's a work-ethic thing. You either have it or you don't. For me...this has been a life-saver and very informational and fulfilling.

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#1228 - 06/06/05 06:13 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Why don't you ask the Supreme Court of Florida what they thought of Mr. Mitton's professionalism as they entered the injunction against him?
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#1229 - 06/06/05 06:52 PM Re: Jay Mitton
sammy10 Offline
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Registered: 07/14/02
Posts: 100
The problem for the consumer interested in asset protection is that he often finds completely contradictory advice from lawyers (not to mention promoters). Some lawyers still insist offshore trusts are effective in many circumstances, while others say they are almost useless. Some promote foreign LLCs. Others promote insurance products so they hand you off to an insurance broker.
You call a bankruptcy attorney and they cannot help you with estate planning. You call an estate planner and their knowledge of asset protection is superficial, and they don't litigate.
And they all seem to denigrate each other.
It's harder to find a good attorney than a doctor.
One thing planners should remember. Just because client's net worth is only a few hundred thousand dollars doesn't mean that that money is less important to the client than a client with a net worth of several million dollars. I know many planners only want to have the super rich as clients, but even a widow with $300,000 deserves a reasonable fee for an asset protection plan.

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#1230 - 06/09/05 12:20 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Cookie Offline
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Posts: 20
Loc: Florida
Like a couple of other people who posted above, I've been reading this thread and felt compelled to register just to throw my valuable two cents in.

I'm a small business owner who has managed to find that financial comfort level that I've never had before. It has all come through trials and tribulations of being self employed and having to wear a multitude of hats. What I have today doesn't qualify as a "fortune" by even meager standards. But it pales in comparison to what I started out with, and the low points during my career when I went to bed hungry.

Throughout this journey I've had the pleasure (and I use the term loosely) of dealing with many types of lawyers. More often than not, I've come away with the consistent impression that lawyers view non-lawyers as people who are incapable of thinking without their assistance. Evidence of this mentality resides right here in this very thread.

While I'm not worth millions today, I certainly strive to keep what I have and take what little is left over and put it to productive use. Who knows what the future holds. I'm just thankful that the business Gods have seen fit to bless me thus far.

I can certainly understand why someone who is good for a liquid couple-million would (and can afford to) spend $20k to properly protect his/her assets. However those of us who seek to protect our humble beginings, as it were, don't want to spend $100 on a box to keep the other $90 in. It just doesn't make sense.

But for all the condescending lawyer hype that I've read here (mostly by lawyers) I can assure you, with some degree of confidence, that intelligence isn't measured by wealth. In fact, I have millionaire friends who are just dumber than doornails. Whether we choose to use "Asset Protection for Dummies", or a facsimile thereof, at this point in our lives, doesn't mean that at some point in the future we won't be seeking the advice of high dollar professionals that will finally take us seriously because our estates are able to afford, and survive, over-inflated rates.

I happen to live in Florida, and this is the most litigious state in the nation for several years running. It also happens to be a very liberal state and overrun with lawyers. So, without researching the reasons why this States Attorney issued a cease and desist order against Mitton, it's reasonable to assume that lawyers, in their quest to supress the do-it-yourselfers and force them into hiring supreme beings to do everything for them, put frivilous motions into action that were impossible to defend. Mitton probably decided to cut his losses and write Florida off as one of the markets better left alone. I don't know. Perhaps the order has merit.

One thing is for sure, I'll be looking into Mittons program now. Another guarantee is that, if, and when, I'm able to afford to have it done for me down the road, I know who I'm less likely to call... the mightier-than-thou, look-down-the-bridge-of-your-nose type lawyers that think I'm too stupid to comprehend why it was I made millions in the first place.

I look forward to reading further debate on the Mitton program. Some tried successes/failures would be appreciated over defensive justifications.

Thanks.

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#1231 - 06/09/05 04:25 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 168
Loc: Uzbekistan
If you live in Florida, then just put it all into your house, or buy life insurance or annuities which are totally protected from creditors. If you don't have much in the way of assets, then you are an ideal candidate for umbrella insurance wherever you live.

Why would you go through the hassles of putting together a family limited partnership, and risk screwing up some transfer and triggering a bunch of taxes?

But let me guess: You work with Mitton? Couldn't tell from your post. {Roll Eyes}
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#1232 - 06/09/05 02:34 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Cookie Offline
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Loc: Florida
No, I don't work with Mitton :lol:. I never heard of him before coming across this forum. I stumbled on this board while looking for some way to collect on a judgement I have against a very elusive individual. The subject matter here intrests me so I got sidetracked.

I want to enjoy my life as opposed to living under a rock. Paying off the house protects some of my cash, but I have toys (boat, small plane, motorcycles, etc.) that are paid for. Not to mention the cash flow my business generates.

I want to be able to take the surplus money and invest it in real estate and other business ventures.

You can only grow so much by watching the property value of my house increase and I have sufficient equity to take care of my only child should I meet an early demise. Life insurance? Annuities? Boring stuff in my humble opinion.

Maybe I downplayed my net worth a little too much in my previous post. I'm probably good for over a million net. But in no case am I buying multi-million dollar jets, nor am I prepared to spend 5 figures on lawyers that NEVER offer any guarantees to begin with.

BTW: The reason I was researching the judgement collecton... you guessed it... litigation attorneys who know how to get a judgement but are clueless when it comes to collecting from an individual who lives in a 4 million dollar house yet owns nothing personally. This probably belongs in another thread, but I'm at my wits end and I'm desperately seeking help. Yes, I'm willing to pay for it, but I resent being milked.

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#1233 - 06/09/05 02:56 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Posts: 168
Loc: Uzbekistan
You are going to pass over "boring stuff" that you know works 100% of the time in favor of a complex entity that you probably don't even understand how it works from a tax perspective, and which works only if done exactly right?

Oh, I see: You want to have an FLP so that it will seem like you have assets. Of course, that's just increases your visibility and makes it more likely that you will be sued whether you have something in the FLP or not.
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#1234 - 06/09/05 04:03 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Cookie Offline
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Loc: Florida
No Mr. Smith, I have no need or desire to make it "seem" like I have assets that don't exist. Nor is it my intent to draw attention to myself.

By "boring" I mean bare minimum return on investment. Yes, it's a sound and safe stratedgy and it works for millions of people. I'm not opposed to it, I just can't see putting ALL my assets there.

Now, do you have any other constructive recommendations or are you just going to make more abrassive assumptions? I didn't mean to challenge your ego.... my apologies.

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#1235 - 06/09/05 06:44 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Everything has cost attached to it, and there is no such thing as investment return without roughly corresponding risk.

And you're the one who came into this discussion with the negative "everyone sucks" attitude.
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#1236 - 06/09/05 08:39 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Cookie Offline
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Loc: Florida
Yes, I'm sure everyone on this board is aware of the risk/reward curve. I'm also sure they've heard about diversification so as not to put all eggs in one basket.

And actually it wasn't an "everyone sucks" attitude... it was more of a "condescending lawyers won't get much business" affirmation.

Interestingly though, you stated:
"You want to have an FLP so that it will seem like you have assets. Of course, that's just increases your visibility and makes it more likely that you will be sued whether you have something in the FLP or not."

Aren't FLPs one of the more popular asset protection products you guys sell? If having an FLP "increases [ones] visibility and makes it more likely [one] will be sued" then what's the point in it?

Not being confrontational, I'm just honestly curious as to why you would criticize your own product or stratedgy.

Thanks.

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#1237 - 06/10/05 02:19 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 168
Loc: Uzbekistan
I'm not associated with Asset Protection Corporation or Rob Lambert, and I don't "sell" FLPs.

Maybe Rob should answer that question, but I bet he will say something like, "The non-creditor justication for doing an FLP is to save estate taxes by discounting the LP interests, but if somebody doesn't have enough assets that they have an estate tax problems, it's going to be really difficult for them to make that argument with a straight face."
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#1238 - 06/14/05 09:20 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Cookie Offline
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Loc: Florida
Then why did you bring up FLPs in the first place? Nothing I said could be remotely construed as me being even mildly interested in an FLP. Perhaps you are just making stuff up as you go along.

You're pretty quick on the attack. I've hardly seen you do much else on this board.

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#1239 - 06/14/05 10:36 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Because that's what Mitton primarily sells.

I don't go out of my way to attack people but to refute nonsense. If a poster persists in repeating nonsense or false information, then they are going to get an earful.

Asset protection is a slimy business in case you haven't noticed, and there are many, many snakes.
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#1240 - 06/14/05 11:27 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Cookie Offline
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Then I'm assuming (just my impression) that you promote more "traditional" forms of protection. Ie: your advice of life insurance and homestead property.

If this is correct, then how do you recommend protecting legitimate businesses? It's hardly practical to have your business tied up in an annuity. Correct?

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#1241 - 06/15/05 09:08 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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I don't promote anything.

What is your connection to mitton.
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#1242 - 06/15/05 04:51 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Cookie Offline
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I already stated that I have no connection to Mitton. Never heard of him before coming across this thread.

Have you seen me promote him, or anything else? All I did was state that arrogant lawyers suck and it seems to have struck a cord with you.

Are you and arrogant lawyer?

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#1243 - 06/15/05 05:33 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Hey, I don't disagree with you.
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#1244 - 07/08/05 10:28 PM Re: Jay Mitton
spideyman Offline
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Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 3
Loc: sofla
Wow
Have any of the people posting seen Jays materials ?
I have . I think he overstates the power of his programs. After reading the book and watching the video that came with it I went elsewhere.

I must say I like the logic of the person that automatically discounts anything someone says once he sees they are a lawyer ...NOT

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#1245 - 07/09/05 06:42 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Posts: 168
Loc: Uzbekistan
Yeah, it's the sort of stuff that you would think twice about at a garage sale.

I think you can get it secondhand on the cheap at EBay. No need to worry about getting an updated copy, since there doesn't appear to be much effort at keeping it current.
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#1246 - 07/12/05 12:14 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Cookie Offline
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Lawyers are gods and their words should be taken as gospel.


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#1247 - 08/28/05 04:18 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Lucky Boy Offline
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Posts: 12
Loc: DC area
I bought a copy of Jay Mitton's materials (tapes, books, and forms) dated 1995 at a library clearance sale for $2. They were brand new as there was no check out record. I'm curious to see how much of his materials has been changed since 1995. I hope I'm not interrupting anyone by posting this.

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#1248 - 08/28/05 07:55 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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Loc: Uzbekistan
Curious to know what you find out. For all these guys selling "do it yourself kits" you can usually snarf a copy of their stuff on e-bay or somewhere for pennies relative to what it sold for new. I'm frankly surprised that anybody at all buys this stuff new, especially since there is little indication that they do much updating.
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#1249 - 10/18/05 02:27 PM Re: Jay Mitton
husky Offline
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Posts: 1
Unfortunately, I have purchased his kit at one of his seminars but after going through some of his material - I don't think I can manage by myself. I am still within money-back time-period.

Would there be any issues in getting my money back? Was wondering if anybody was in similar situation.

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#1250 - 12/13/05 10:43 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Interested Party Offline
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Mitton's kits are so overpriced for what you get. I've heard that you can actually buy the same material online...authored by the same lawyer who did Mitton's stuff...for a third of the cost of his kits at the seminar.

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#1251 - 12/15/05 02:58 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Bill Smith Offline
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You could probably put together something close to Mitton's kit by buying some other books on "asset protection" and "family limited partnerships" from Amazon.com for around $100.

Mitton's ideas are seriously outdated. He is behind the times by about a decade now. But as long as suckers are continuing to buy his kits, why change?
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#1252 - 01/20/06 04:04 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Roccy Offline
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Posts: 54
Loc: St. Joseph, Michigan
I agree for the most part with what's been said about Jay Mitten.

If you want to know how good his materials that he sells in the back of the room are, just go to Amazon.com and buy them for pennies on the dollar.

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#1253 - 10/03/06 09:31 PM Re: Jay Mitton
pearlbytes Offline
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Registered: 10/03/06
Posts: 1
Loc: california
Is anyone interested in putting the EXPO version of this JM Asset Protection Kit to the test for half the price or less? My sister paid $2000 for it on impulse, hoping that her husband could put it to use? Not! He's too busy and she is not savvy enough herself! It is still brand new, unopened and came in a sturdy, carrying case on wheels.

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#1254 - 10/13/06 12:52 AM Re: Jay Mitton
TrixieandTia Offline
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Registered: 10/12/06
Posts: 1
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Pearlbytes: The latest version of this kit contains an interactive CD that allows the user to plug in names, dates, etc. and the CD prepares completed legal documents for printing. I'd be interested in buying this kit if it contains the interactive CD.

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#1255 - 10/13/06 08:29 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Ryan Offline
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Posts: 970
Loc: SLC, Utah
Make sure at the very least you consult with a tax professional on what you're doing. I've seen people get hosed by setting stuff up and not knowing the tax consequences of what they were doing, then they lost thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of $$$ to Uncle Sam.

Jay Mitton's material also says you should implement his stuff under the guidance of an attorney and tax professional. The problem is very few professionals really understand asset protection. But most tax guys can keep you from making tax blunders, at least.

Regards,

Ryan Fowler
www.pfshield.com
wrf90@hotmail.com

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#1256 - 11/10/06 10:08 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Winky Glover Offline
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Posts: 1
Loc: MS
The "Jay Mittons" of this world are a boon to lawyers because we get paid three times over cleaning up the disasters that result from these plans.

By all means - proceed. Christmas is near and Santa has some stockings to fill.

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#1257 - 11/29/06 01:33 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Douglas J. Lineberry Offline
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I have to say that I laughed out loud when I logged in yesterday (for the first time in a few months - its been busy) and saw that the Jay Mitton post is still getting comments over two years after the thread was started. I suppose there is something to say about "no such thing bad publicity", even for Jay Mitton.
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#1258 - 12/03/06 01:32 PM Re: Jay Mitton
elliot36 Offline
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Registered: 12/03/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Boston, MA
Like some of you, I just came back from Boston RE Expo. Bought the package for $2K. (some RE Gurus are scam, some are not)

A lady (in her 50-60s) didn't buy it but told me that some lawyer charged her $1,500 in May for some trust, didn't bother fixing "We" with "I" since she is by herself.

My personal experience with lawyers or legal forms. When I bought my first house, I signed the dotted lines in front of a lawyer, thought that this stuff is sacred. My latest Real Estate transaction taught me a good lesson that everything goes as long as it doesn't contradict a state or federal law. The seller used a form of entity that is not recognized in that state to hold title, the lawyer had to draft something up to say, the other beneficially blah blah blah to bless the title.

If you pick up any of those deeds in your county, you will see that it comes with all shapes and sizes, as long as they contain certain critical information. I spent $500 to get a lawyer drafted some trust just to find out that that type of trust doesn't work for the specific state through that latest RE transaction.

I came to USA in 1998, an immigrant. So, please ignore grammar error or mispelling. My 2 cents is, everyone's comfort level is different. As long as you know what you are doing and it provides the level of protection you need, go for it. As some of you said, if you get the extra $20K to spend, hire a lawyer to give you a piece of mind. As anything goes with law, at the end, you still pray that nothing bad is going to happen to you and your assets.

Life lesson, in this world, it is precious to have true family and friends, otherwise, you are on your own. Do you best to use your intelligence!

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#1259 - 12/03/06 06:31 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Jay Adkisson Offline
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People may *think* that some stuff works, but they will not find out that it doesn't until years later when it is discovered that title is clouded, etc.

Of course, I can't complain too much because, as others have mentioned, these kits are a Lawyers' Full Employment Act in generating business.

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#1260 - 12/04/06 04:00 PM Re: Jay Mitton
elliot36 Offline
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Registered: 12/03/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Boston, MA
Thanks Randell. If you practice law in RI or Mass, please email me your contact info.

I am going to return the package and use legalzoom.com to get the job done.

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#1261 - 12/04/06 06:46 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Michael Goode Offline
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Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 61
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I believe that Legal Zoom was founded by one of OJ Simpson's attorneys.

I have to agree with everyone else about websites like legalzoom being a lawyers full employment plan. We do a lot of probate work here and I have almost never seen a do-it-yourself "simple" will work out as planned, never mind more complex forms. Its nice, though, because a good probate battle equals about 30-40k of legal fees. I would have to write an awful lot of wills to equal that.
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#1262 - 12/15/06 02:56 AM Re: Jay Mitton
elliot36 Offline
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Registered: 12/03/06
Posts: 3
Loc: Boston, MA
I would dish out the money and get a reputable lawyer if there is one to be found. Sorry, I need an asset protection lawyer in Rhode Island and I don't know anyone. I joined the local REIA and yet try to get someone to gives out a referral.

Thanks,
Eric
PS. I haven't moved an inch on forming my own LLC yet.

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#1263 - 12/15/06 03:40 AM Re: Jay Mitton
pfshield Offline
Member

Registered: 05/07/05
Posts: 188
Loc: SLC, Utah
Consider the list of following individuals, who may work under a Rhode Island attorney in order to assist you:

Rob Lambert (the owner of this board at www.assetprotectioncorp.com)
Ryan Fowler (me)
Jay Adkisson
Chris Riser
Randall Edwards
Roccy de Francesco
Arnold Goldstein
Gideon Rothschild
Barry Engel

All of the above planners, in my humble opinion, have a good grasp of how asset protection works. The foregoing does not constitute legal advice. Remember, this is an internet forum, so take it with a grain of salt. This list is only a starting point for research, and does not constitute an endorsement of the above individuals.

Regards,

Ryan Fowler
www.pfshield.com
wrf90@hotmail.com

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#1264 - 08/30/07 02:09 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Mitten in my Wallet Offline
New Member

Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2
test reply before spending time on a well thought out post.

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#1265 - 08/30/07 03:30 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Mitten in my Wallet Offline
New Member

Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2
Please forgive my post above. In the past, I’ve spent time composing a proper response only to find certain forums don’t allow posting to “zombie” threads, but I’m not letting this one die!

I’ve seen much arguing over Mitton on this thread (and I’ve read all the posts), but since this is one of the top sites that show when Googling “Jay Mitton”, I will give you a perspective of someone who has both purchased his materials and later decided to go to an attorney.

I purchased his materials while at a seminar of “financial all-stars”. I’d seen his presentation in the past, but didn’t have much in the way of assets, so I settled on an umbrella – but then, real estate home prices took off, so it was time to do something.

After purchasing his product, which in his presentation, he repeatedly said “can avoid expensive legal fees”, I opened the first page on the first of many books, and inside it the disclaimer read something like “this is not legal advice, you should have a lawyer look this over”. I should’ve been smart enough to return the thing right there, but I wasn’t. I was determined to not just throw an LLC together, but truly understand what I was doing.

The materials contained in Mitton’s kit are extraordinarily detailed and thorough, and there is tons of it. I’ll give that to him. But as previously stated, they are WOEFULLY outdated. Even as a non legal professional, I saw signs of this. And after thoroughly reading a good portion of the material, I had my doubts about how well this would really protect me if a lawsuit should’ve arisen.

I also had questions which were not answered in the book, and which I really didn’t want to take advice from someone who is paid to answer phones for a living (i.e. their help line). Maybe the help line is fantastic, I don’t know, because after seeing what I saw on the materials, I didn’t give it a chance.

So after dropping four thousand dollars on this stupid kit… it is a pretty nice footstool. I never put it into action because I questioned the very basis for which I bought it – namely that it was solid legal information. I have moved numerous times since purchasing this kit, but REFUSE to throw it away, because maybe, just maybe, I’ll find a use for it – though I highly doubt it.

After spending the four grand on Mitton, we went to a real attorney specializing in asset protection and estate planning and got all our questions answered, established a relationship with a good attorney (this is important), had it customized for our needs, and did it for around twice the original cost of Mitton’s outdated material.

However, I don’t believe Mitton is a scam artist, per se, anymore than a car salesman that marks cars drastically over market is a scam artist. If he has the skills to sell it to people dumb enough to buy it, then the fault ultimately lays with the buyer (though that whole “you don’t need an attorney” statement still burns me). It’s a scummy way to make a living if you ask me, but it’s his life, I suppose. I’m just quite annoyed that I was dumb enough to spend four thousand dollars on a worthless impulse purchase.

My suggestion would be to go to an attorney specializing in asset protection. If you choose not to go this route: research, research, research, then buy an off the shelf product and modify it to your needs – then perhaps run it by a *credible* asset protection attorney and make sure you didn’t miss any gaps.

And whatever you do, never buy anything at any seminar. It’s all overpriced crap. If you look at ebay right now and type in Jay Mitton, you will find his kits priced at about $99… and I think even that is a little pricey. I can get some real good, up to date, step by step books from Amazon or B&N for less than that.

Take it from me… think twice. If you’re still thinking Mitton is worth it, you’re not thinking hard enough.

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#1266 - 08/30/07 06:25 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Douglas J. Lineberry Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/13/06
Posts: 28
Loc: Tacoma, WA
Wallet:

Great post. I love the fact that after all these years the Jay Mitton thread still gets new traffic.

I was recently on the other end of your experience. Over a year ago I met with some people that had a few real estate investments going and decided they needed to think about protection. We discussed strategies and I made a proposal and then didn't hear from them for 13 months. The short version of the story is that they subsequently attended a Mitton seminar, purchased his expensive kit because it was cheaper than what I was proposing, read some of it and thought it was confusing garbage and ended up coming back to me asking for exactly what I had proposed. The sad thing was that what I was proposing was not terribly exotic or complicated and was only slightly more expensive than the Mitton $4k kit.
_________________________
Douglas J. Lineberry
http://www.lklawgroup.com

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#1267 - 11/14/07 01:53 AM Re: Jay Mitton
larrywww Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 9
Loc: southern california
So what is exactly the relationship of Robert Bluhm to Jay Mitton? Bluhm is an attorney from the Dallas area who promotes an asset protection system. Is it Mitton's that he promotes? Or his own? Just curious.

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#1268 - 11/15/07 04:29 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Ryan Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/19/05
Posts: 970
Loc: SLC, Utah
I know there's a Dallas attorney or law office that helps implement Mitton's stuff. I can't recall whether it's Bluhm or not.

Mitton's office basically gets tons of calls from people looking for assistance in implementing his plans, so whatever his office can't do, he tries to pass off to a few other attorneys. Still, they get overloaded and can't help a lot of people.

I used to know a guy who was on a company that did Mitton's back-end sales, and the above is according to what he told me.

Regards,

Ryan Fowler
www.pfshield.com
wrf90@hotmail.com

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#1269 - 11/17/07 11:49 AM Re: Jay Mitton
psa2000 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 92
Loc: USA
Friends ! Enough of Jay Mitton.

This Forum is well known for all the positive discussions.

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#1270 - 11/26/07 03:30 AM Re: Jay Mitton
pitt Offline
New Member

Registered: 11/24/07
Posts: 1
I attended a seminar by the National Medical Foundation for Asset Protection organized by a local physician organization. The speaker did get our attention very effectively. I was too concerned about a few issues to move forward:
I questioned my ability to use the "simple" templates and not make a horrendous blunder from, say, a tax standpoint;
the seminar suggested highly aggressive tax sheltering plans and I wasn't sure if the rest of their package was so high risk;
I was concerned that state and local issues may not be addressed adequately.

I do know that one of the attendees who purchased the $4K product had no problems getting a full refund, so they were not a fly-by-night operation.

It did motivate my wife and I to visit a local attorney/CPA firm, and what I find is that asset protection, estate planning, and tax optimization dont necessarily have one clear strategy.
So, I thank Jay Mitton for opening our eyes, and leading us, among other things, to this forum, a couple of local acct/law professionals, and Jay A's asset protection book. I still dont know if we have the right resources to address the big picture and get the tax issues, the estate planning, and protection, and state and local issues, but we've benefited from Mitton's company even if I wont use his services.

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#1271 - 11/27/07 04:54 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Ryan Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/19/05
Posts: 970
Loc: SLC, Utah
Only a few attorneys really understand asset protection planning. Therefore it behooves one to contact their local attorney and insist they work with a specialist. Run it by your tax advisor as well. I've found that estate planning, litigation, tax, or bankruptcy attorneys work especially well with asset protection planners. If you're protecting a lot of real estate, then maybe a real estate attorney is a good choice.

Unless the attorney does a lot of asset protection planning, he probably only knows enough to be dangerous. They don't really teach asset protection in law school, and the continuing professional education courses are by and large pretty lousy.

Regards,

Ryan Fowler
www.pfshield.com
wrf90@hotmail.com

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#1272 - 08/19/08 04:52 PM Re: Jay Mitton
Chris Turner Offline
New Member

Registered: 08/19/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Orem, Utah
I am always curious about what information is out there regarding Mr. Mitton. His name is had for good and bad, depending on who you talk to, for various reasons. But the fact is, while most people have an opinion on the kits his former companies sold, few know about him and the relationships between his speakers and the kits sold.

Jay started practicing law in Utah back in 1972. He started with a small estate planning practice and had a few partners along the way. But in 1987, he formed the law firm of Mitton & Burningham, which used to have offices in Salt Lake City, Newport Beach, CA and Dallas, Texas, but now only in Utah,, and really ramped up his seminar companies. They had been going on for a few years prior to that, but 1987 really was the beginning of things going strong. At that point, Mr. Mitton no longer practiced law on a full time basis, but focused on speaking publicly on asset protection and selling a kit to "do-it-yourselfers". Back then, the planning was much more simple than it is today, and so was the kit. And at that time, there were very few practitioners in the country focusing specifically on asset protection planning as a niche practice. I think because of that, his high profile at the time, he got his nickname as the "father of asset protection". But the fact his, he was the first to take it mainstream and help it get to where it is today.

Once people bought a kit, they could call his firm for a quick consultation. At that point, the firm would answer non-specific legal questions about the kit, and also give people the opportunity to retain the firm to do the complicated work for them. And I know this because I worked as an attorney for Mitton & Burningham. The law firm and seminar operation operated separately, and did not share finances at all, so the law firm had zero interest in selling the kits. And never has.

In 2001, Mr. Mitton and Mr. Burningham parted as partners, and the law firm Asset Protection Legal Group, LLC was formed to support the 3,000+ clients it had worked with over the years. The seminar company at that point had evolved drastically. It was now 7+ different companies marketing to different groups. And it was presenting at various organizations, still selling the kit. The kit has changed over the years, although the speakers have not. Mr. Bluhm has spoken for one or many of the Mitton companies for several years. They do pitch the FLP hard because the LP statutes are pretty uniform nationally, but the LLC and other tools have been added and improved over the years. I think the kit was last updated 3 years ago, and the new agreements are sound, but generic, while the older kit was, in my opinion, sub-par. They have to be generic in order to market them to all 50 states, and that is the one main downside to them. All states may have similar FLP statutes, but LLC and Trust laws vary subtly from state to state.

A good practitioner will customize your documents to be state specific. Whether you are forming a Nevada Corporation, a California LP or an Alaska LLC, customization is essential. Same goes for your Trust now, where federal estate tax laws and state estate tax laws are no longer joined together in many states, which can cause a tax issue if your documents do not address this. And property transfer tax laws and franchise tax laws vary drastically and are a huge issue in some jurisdictions, and that is not addressed at the seminars.

Mr. Mitton has recently sold all interests in his seminar companies, and is out of the business. They do still operate, with new owners, and his name is still used to promote the sales of kits because, the fact is, his name is worth something to those promoters.

If anyone has questions about him, feel free to contact me and ask. Or ask about those do-it-yourself kits. But I will tell you to attend his seminar for the general information, don't buy anything, then call a qualified attorney to do the plan for you. It may cost more, but in the long run, it would be worth it to you.
_________________________
Chris B. Turner, Esq.

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#1273 - 08/22/08 07:19 AM Re: Jay Mitton
Ryan Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/19/05
Posts: 970
Loc: SLC, Utah
Thanks for the useful information, CBT!

Regards,

Ryan Fowler
www.pfshield.com

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